As you know, all of us Catholics believe in Caritas in all things ). Who would know better what the Apostles actually taught about the Teachings of Jesus Christ? The issue is the exegesis of a particular text of Scripture that is very difficult. Youll get that casuistry degree yet. doesnt seem to perceive the inconsistency of their own message. Thank you for the defense, Esau I spent the weekend with my folks, and didnt even see Aristotillean comment. Maybe I just dont understand what a bishop is in James Whites denomination. Theres nothing gnostic about it. Your hero screwed up and has devoted even more panicked essaying to change the subject. Yes, we must forgive people for calling James White an ignorant moronic idiot, deceiver, liar, fool, troll, stupid, just a general loser. All Rights Reserved. Labrialumn, Likewise, if you use any statement or general observation, there will be an accusation that the surrounding context somehow excused the gaffe, meaning that one has to literally quote every single piece of the entire article, transcript, etc., in ones answer. He is the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone. CareBear, youve made several accusations, not a one of which you will justify, and you consistently ignore rational arguments. And that, having ordained what is Holy Scripture, God will not allow us to misunderstand it. Oh, he refuses to read the book that was recommended. When a Catholic is open to the idea that perhaps a Protestant was the one responsible for it, he is quick to put it down as a silly conspiracy theory. Thats the problem with re-fighting 500 year old battles: it makes you look like an obsessive crank. Andit worked. Registrant City:Riverside Vivat Christi. We are all searching for Gods way, and all who are RC, OC, or Protestant know that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, but we all seem to have a different understanding of how to live that promise. CAIR uses that argument too. If you believe that, go re-read this thread. IF he did it intentionally, that would make him a liar. And St. Cyprian in the third century wrote: Whoever is separated from the Church is separated from the promises of Christ One cannot have God as a Father who has not the Church as his mother. My Reply The carefully worded phrases are contracepted. For example, one may be saved as a Baptist, but not as a Bahai (spelling error wantonly ignored) because the religion denies the divinity of Christ. Donald Casadonte Rather than deal with this, some play every which way but loose, even to the point of insinuating I did it. Excuses like "it was just a little levity" count for nothing. We deserve the society full of people who do not know the difference between between what actually occurred with Columbus, Galileo, the Inquisition, and the Crusades. Could It Get Any Loonier? (big problem here). The conversion of the greatest early Church Father, St. Augustine of Hippo. Call me a liar, youd be right, any Christian would confess such a thing. CareBear, *we dont care* what insanity you want to bring out. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. Westcott and Hort modern James White and Jimmy Akin have met on numerous occasions in a variety of formats and frankly it is White who ends up tossing red herrings to avoid dealing with the truth. Has the Quran Been Accurately Transmitted? Either Catholics would react, thus proving his point, or they wouldnt, thus implying that its a reasonable comparison (after all, the Catholics didnt object.) Thoroughly. Even defended Churchmouses comments which extended to the following it is logical to conclude that those who do not do a thing to assume they are either unable or unwilling. Scripture is not, me and my Bible alone under a tree or, Soli Scriptura. GODWINS LAW has spoken. Athanasius? Its hilarious that you feel that facts from the debate is irrelevant when, actually, it is the very heart of the matter! Briefly commented on the We had a technical problem at the start but managed to get in a full hour on the road once again, this time from West Texas. This thread was about his humor, not his theology. Does the Quran Misrepresent Christianity? CareBear: Putting out a pad of paper for people to share their thoughts with one another is not the same as being willing to be cross-examined. if he repents doesnt seem to require us to forgive those who do not repent. No, I havent read Whites books. Correct, except that syllogism doesnt accurately portray what went on here. The Final Act was just amazing! But youd come up with something, Im sure. The Book of Nathan the Prophet[6] Name Server:NS5.DEWDESIGNS.NET To quote White, yet again; Jimbo, Jill, I just wanted to clarify that I was the Greg who wrote about how to block referrals from Websites I am not the Greg that Thomas Aquinas wrote about. I didnt really get his analogy, carebear. a. I think he made a error in judgement. All of this revolves around the debate between White and Beckwith. [definition from But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. You may be missing my point, which is, how did you make your determination that Christs authority is in the Catholic Church? It would have been wrong and far worse to have pictures of people who are obviously Catholic holding up such signs. they are isolated, connected only by inference and grammer to the world we live in. Foxfier, thanks for your thoughtful response. Q: Not the gnostic thing again, please. Nope. I say this with as much humility as I can. 2. than to take a route never spoken of by Christ or the Bible, and just confess to God by yourself. Nowhere in Akins post do I find him explaining how he asked White what his intentions were, following it with Whites answer quoted and cited, and so forth, which is what a charitable person would have done. Its clear these people have no interest whatsoever in rational discourse. I would be doing a disservice to my collegues who have spent their lives trying to understand humor and its effects if I did not speak for at least part of the humor community. Wouldnt they then be more intruiged to find out more about him, seeing as you deem him important enough to name your apologetics website after him? of Mapname.com customer 3 Stubblespark it might even help the White apologists who seem to fear the same silence. By the way, How exactly are Islamists the National Socialist Workers of the post 9/11 world? Speaking of a stubborn man, He said: If he refuse to hear even the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen (Matt. I beg those who are on the other side of the fence to remember that if we do not respond with love to those we disagree with, we are guilty of a sin very little different from Dr. Whites. Ditto his successors, the Caliphsor at least the first four, the so-called rightly-guided Caliphs. Thats the kind of thing Im talking about. 7:10,11). Wish more folks who find a wrong in such a thing would do it. 18:18) Surely something must be visible to bind and loose, to be heard and obeyed. Let me share with you one of the Rules of Strider for Apologetics (and I am making this up off the top of my head): I have one thing to say about Dr. White: Golden Gate Theological Seminary. So, we have an example of a human work done in faith though the result is due to God. Yes, to an extent they did. And you do it using a goofy identity-hiding handle, too. ^_^. Ill read it after the kids are in bed and dishes are done. Actually, Id be obliged if you could think of a third option? Your original claim was that the Apostles were empowered. One might argue that Dr. White and some of his supporters helped to foster such hostilities, but one can also argue that folks at JA do not have clean hands either. James White and Jimmy Akin have met on numerous occasions in a variety of formats and frankly it is White who ends up tossing red herrings to avoid dealing with the truth. Laser, asked CatholicWayne on | Aug 11, 2007 12:55:01 PM Then dont quote. So put upon is he by the cacophonous calls for charity that he has to break the tension by putting up what he believes are a few innocent and humorous pictures. Get your popcorn and enjoy the freak show! sharp contrast to the heresy of Paul Washer, John MacArthur and James White, Remember what St. Paul said??? Christ forgave and still treated people charitably. Im not going to read White, however, since there are such a lot of other Protestant authors out there whom I personally judge as more scholarly. I am sorry for my tone. He was wondering why people accept a consensus of the early church on the cannon of scripture and dont accept a similar consensus on penance and the real presence. P.S. Director of Alpha & Omega Ministries. Thank you for your kind sentiments and defending me against the false witness of that Bear-ish brood. watch them). When you gulp down the unexamined assertions of any one-true-agent-of-God-on-earth organization, you will begin to stumble down a very dark and threatening path. You can go for this tattoo pictured above, which illustrates the literal meaning of both the symbols. And, as he is becoming more stupid, I can only imagine it as a sign that he is moving closer to Rome The Books of annals of the Kings of Israel And, as he is becoming more stupid, I can only imagine it as a sign that he is moving closer to Rome. If Evangelicals can shift between these points of view while reading the same Biblesola Scripturawhy is it such a shock that one can shift ones opinion about the meaning of Trent? The harted you guys show toward White actually proves the very point he wanted to make in posting those pictures. But WHAT IF the Romanists made an error since, after all, the Catholic Church is nothing but a front for Satan! Thank you for your contribution. It was silly and unworthy to posit White as some goofball imam. And were gonna go to ROME! 2. Why did I choose to follow the pope? There are actually folks who judge a person innocent merely based on an assumption. 1. not sane; not of sound mind; mentally deranged. Given that you are willing to offer an opinion on the call when you dont recall it by your own admission, it seems that you also have a habit of offering opinions without checking the facts. Well, then. Im asking you since you believe in Sola Scriptura, how do you determine what is Scripture and what is not??? Its the Vast Angelwing Conspiracy, Jeremiah! You should not give yourself a reputation for purblind deceptiveness trying to save him. Those 8 questions belong are enough for several threads. Oh, so this post here is nothing but a CHEAP DEBATE TACTIC from Jimmy Akin???? how Satanic and corrupt all these new Even I could read Scripture in a variety of ways. Esau, the claim was Whites supporters are either unable or unwilling to participate in a serious discussion. Such a claim is based on a negative view of SOME of his supporters on this forum and ignores the existence of supporters, perhaps to include those who haved posted on JA, who have been and/or are otherwise willing to participate in serious discussion were it not for the hostilities and dismissiveness present on the JA forum. Speaking of a stubborn man, He said: If he refuse to hear even the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen (Matt. Whether or not we have a responsibility to forgive someone who has not repented, I think we should still forgive them in the sense of wishing them well and seeking no revenge. And likewise, if we reflect Christ, we should give him the love that Christ would, yet the correction that comes with Church discipline. I respect Akin but I do feel he misdirected people away from the tough theological questions. In drama, hyperbole is exaggeration not meant as an equivalent. For anything that I have said here, a Roman Catholic has said something the same or much worse, and I dont consider anything Ive said here to be bad. as being authors of particular books? Are. I was addressing the Roman Catholic apologetics community. I have a question Matthew, if the Catholic church is salvation through Christ, why must one confess to a Catholic priest to recieve absolution? Whew, that's good stuff!!! It was SDG who said its gnostic. for example, you wouldnt be permitted to preach dispensationalism of any sort in my home church. I fully deny that White has in even the slightest way held to the high ground, and I deny that he is the most wronged. I asked if you are a disciple and if so, who chose you. Carebear and Lane, James White, director, is a professor, having taught Greek, Systematic Theology, and various topics in the field of apologetics for numerous schools. My presumption is that Edward is anti-religion and anti-Christian. *YAWN* Esau, you contradict yourself. And why am I not surprised?? have I missed or misstated anything? What do you expect? When one happens upon a URL that leads direcrtly to Catholic Answers, what is one to assume? Jimmy on the other hand is just plain good person. Multitasking, I suppose. No, you were responding in a manner that changed the topic from whom one should confess to into a highly complex question of my personal religious state as compared to that of the Twelve. Whites assertions destroy his own position. The Greek people believed that the goddess Moira decide when a person to be born and to die, or in a biblical sense when a person should begin or end. Your praise of impassive precision of logic and scholarly conduct implies a similar sensibility though one hardly in keeping with the horrendous taste and judgment of Whites joke.. Foxy: *waggles her eyebrows at Esau* Barry: Without knowing who linked the jamesrwhite.org website to Catholic Answers, any discussion of why it was done is pure speculation. God is not impressed by sophistry and manipulative actions. But the seed is planted As for my depth of study in church history (including the Father), I consider it sufficient to justify the statements I am making. He worked for many years as a hospital chaplain. Phoenix, AZ 85069 Check out the Amazing. Tech Name:to attn. The difference between a humorist and a comedian is that a humorist doesnt have to be funny all the time! Fascinating and important stuff from the former Pope. wayne And the illogic of sola scriptura is so simple: Its not in the scriptures. Blessed Redeemer . The daily dying to self, the seeds of every moment are to die for the sake of the Kingdom which is Christ our Lord. Welcome, Bill. He is not doing so, instead, we are fed with his restlessness. Given that the site was registered in a manner to best preserve anonymity, it looks like it was maliciously done; there is a chance that someone is playing a joke, though, and just didnt want it to be found out that quickly. Inocencio When did you authoritatively establish what His revelation is? An apology. Also, its interesting how in your most recent comment, you have excluded the White disciple; therefore, would it be unreasonable for me to concluded now that you are pointing the finger at Catholics, since they would be the one, based on what youve been implying here and on the other thread, with the malicious intents? Please note Im only an average layperson (and I never really post online), so what I say might be in error. then we can deal with it Read the post. Did you not even remember your post???? Satanic counterfeit Bible versions also The fact he is so angry at Catholics and Catholicism could mean his conscience is bothering him. Think of it as a healthy kind of check-and-balance system. When we apply these considerations to Scripture, we are able to see that canon (infallible) is a neccessary result of Gods freely chosen act of inspiration. Humbly, I offer a contrary opinion. McR: Kind of like Aikido, if someone does not throw a punch, you really cannot do anything. I look forward to reading more of your work. I have other responses to your post, but later . Granted these questions dont have much meaning when one is debating issues about Faith but it should be. It simmers in the background and bubbles up every so often. As a matter of fact, one of the pivotal moments in my conversion was an AUDIO CASSETTE of James White and Jimmy Akin on a Protestant radio talk show. To continue to address your White quotations: Thus, I follow the Bishop of Rome (the successor to St Peter on earth), because the Catholic Church is, I believe, truly Christs Church. Thank you. Until I read his homepage, I didnt know he seems so hateful and immature. corrupt Bible versions (although he admits he doesn't support all of them). What Did Jesus Preach - Christianity or Islam? The Psalms of Solomon So far, you have declined to explain. Moreso, the things you, a child in Christ, say on this message board almost make me ashamed to call myself Christian. The only thing Ive heard is I wont read him/Ive never read him, but hes full of hot air. Please help him to sense Your presence in removing the chains that hold him to that pain. If you have a productive discussion point, then please state it. But that said, take his substance as substance. Same way you can think something is right and be wrong. Stubble, Where was the big long post by Jimmy Akin condemning this fellow? Greg writes: Respond even stronger? But we will still be here. Besides being an author, Jimmy is the Senior Apologist at Catholic Answers, a contributing editor to Catholic Answers Magazine, and a weekly guest on "Catholic Answers Live." The Book of the Kings of Judah and Israel[13] Whites comments are not something that Ive spent much time on, but clearly he overstepped a line. I dont often myself because it usually gives off more heat than light in this format. Somehow, I see visions of Wyle Coyote and a steamroller. Carebear, 7:10,11) Are. By that logic, I have a relationship of some form with Mr. Spock Ive been a fan for years, and have put up posts about him. One of the rules of LAbri is honest answers for honest questions. I dont see a lot of that going on. What name-calling did Jimmy Akin resort to? If he did, does that make it ok? He also servedin youth ministry for nine plus years, at Bethel Church in Crown Point, Indiana and at LifeQuest Church, in Phoenix, Arizona. King List 3. The thesaurus meritorum? Tim, I had to laugh at your comparison with Finding Nemo, so that was funny I dont know about his long post as a whole, but I thought that one sentence really captured the essence of the thread. from Columbia Evangelical Seminary (formerly Faraston Seminary). What was your answer? They were treated in just the same way as the Pope. Feel free to uncharitably construe my words in the worst possible light Johnathan. God tests those He loves. Way towhat did yall do anyway? Here is an excellent 17:21 minute video For I had heard how Anthony had been admonished by a reading from the Gospel at which he chanced to be present, as if the words read were addressed to him: Go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven, and come, follow me. and that by such portent he was immediately converted to you. Ending the debate was the right thing to do. We dont have to follow the Ten Commandments. I, as a Catholic, rely on the authority of the Church, as vested in Peter by Jesus. Your inability and/or unwillingness to consider ideas outside of your own conjecture, Outside of the basic understanding that these letters represent the state of these local churches in the first century, others have viewed them as representing ages of the church down Last evening I spent a few hours talking with a former Christian, now a skeptic. Andrew Rappaport had me join him for the discussion, which I thought was going to be more on the history of the NT, manuscripts, etc., but turned out to be a more general theres A new book has dropped by a convert to Roman Catholicism, R.R. The Book of Gad the Seer[7] soldiers funerals. Its not as if His (infallible) knowledge can simply *pop* into existence. It was a specific instance of a humor piece by Dr. White that was at issue, here. Admin State/Province:CA The basis is your own reflection. NEVER!!!! Dr. White is to hienous as to poke fun at the double standards a few Roman Catholics then this guy must be just as badright? My reason to believe this involves trusting the authority of the Church to determine authentic scripture. Double standards? A few things. Why dont you read the writings of the early church fathers for yourself and try to explain why prominent in the early church was the Eucharist, the Real Presence, Reconciliation, Anointing of the Sick, among other things Catholic? Generally it is better for one to air their concerns privately first before going public. I believe Gods mechanism for revealing the canon of Scripture was the body of believers, and White agrees too, even so much as to say so in the text I provided: No, thats because I am dense but thats another issue. Shut em down now, Jimmy. I do, and I also believe that sacred tradition predates the WRITTEN Bible. because the Bible told me to. 42 Pins 5y T Collection by Tattoomaze Similar ideas popular now Tattoos Faith Tattoo Tattoo Designs And Meanings Tattoos With Meaning Chi Rho Tattoo Tattoo Art Tattoo Quotes Sacred Heart Tattoos Jesus Tattoo Old Symbols Religious Tattoos Keep your fallacy out of my doctrine if you dont want my logic in your Church. I believe that they would have believed in Sola Scriptura. But are you all so devoid of humor that you cannot/willnot see how you prove his pooint ? for we also forgive EVERYONE who sins against us. Perhaps we should not rail Mr. White. Appropriate To what shall I compare that truth claim to see if it measures up? Join Facebook to connect with James R. White and others you may know. Why is that offensive and JWs picture Just funnin . Did you have something of substance you wanted to say, or were you just going to back me up in a sarcastic manner. Ah well. I said that it was pointless to discuss with people who thought that what James White did with those cartoons was defensible. I would like to ask anyone who claims that the Roman Catholic Church, as it exists today, has existed for nearly 2000 years, to explain something to me. Using Whites own arguments I will respond to Esau. And who, pray tell, provides the checks-and-balances for those of you outside the walls? I suppose such a thing fits the logic and attitude of the mob though. I love the phrase Tiber swim team God is, after all, the author. (Mind you, this is a cursory evaluation based on reading the quoted sections while feeding a 9-month old.) But for the past 2000 years? Im just amused, no end, that what I suspected about that teeny particular piece of this entire mess was true. About the why of forwarding of a website named james r white to catholic .com: mary margaret: Many have said already: Whites actions are designed to deliberately repel the very same people he seeks to convert. If you cant immediately see that and make amends then no one, knowing that you are capable of this, should engage you in debate or discussions of any kind. You level against me that: Youll get that casuistry degree yet. So, my question to you is to whom was the Canon divinely inspired? Glorious Lord. But, in the first place, not all inspired writers have been prophets or workers of miracles; in the second place, in order that prophecies or miracles may serve as proof of inspiration, it must be clear that the miracles were performed, and the prophecies were uttered, to establish the fact in question; in the third place, if this condition be verified, the testimony for inspiration is no longer merely human, but it has become Divine. By the by, http://www.jameswhite.org for the CA website url? Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. You know, irreducible tautologies and such. Hehe, found out something amusing. Look, it is you Sola Scriptura Protestants that protest that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. As I have asserted before, I doubt few here have actually ever litened to a White debate. Soon as White says Look, Im sorry Ill be cool with im. It is true that there are alternative means of expressing frustration. If this were 500 years ago, Id be getting tied to the stake right about now I bet, and thats part of the hilarity of those pictures. Good idea, though. If it is, I was hoping you finally converted to Catholicism or, at the very least, left our church. 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