Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of "Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse" by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Its gotten popular which makes me suspect. Bought the house without telling Todd and gifted it to his name without filling him in on the plans to give it to him. Sure, lets not address anything that is rumored to be strange about Watermark and say that Jesus sounded cultish. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. The reason for this is because, as an elder, he will be responsible for teaching others. Also, he pointed out that all the people at the resort were drinking Mezcal (Then heRead more . Wagner should have sold the home and elected to live a less extravagant neighborhood (Highland Park). Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. Mickey makes it sound like the decision for Todd to resign was something weve arrived at due to events. Does God want everyone to be broke? Im also a bit a sad with respond of David (elder) who is in the leadership role to show the love with staring at the congregation (may be because of challenges). We have ministry partners with boots on the ground, helping to love and serve others by meeting their immediate physical and spiritual needs. Yes WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. Im not taking about prosperity- Watermark was founded in November 7, 1999 with an outward-focused ministry that sought to minister to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." [1] Watermark averages about 9,000 weekly attendants. When he stepped into an executive pastor role a few years back he didnt like that his replacement (JP) was more poly than he was so he didnt allow him to pastor/lead. . Not Todds decision but good try on the poor stewardship bit. I was so disappointed reading all the comments, especially when considering the targeted audience for this site. Religious double talk. Life Stage Care and Recovery Equipping Outreach Serve Community Groups. Who aint very happy. Wagner was tearful during his speech in the video Sunday. Incorrect. Its upto Him. Friends, theres a lot of speculation here. Watermark exists to be and make more fully devoted followers of Christ, looking to God's Word as our only authority, conscience and guide. Some of the most notable settlements are described below. Awaken Conference 2021. To donate, Pastor of Dallas Megachurch Dogged by Allegations of Spiritual Abuse Announces Hes Taking a Break, https://www.wadeburleson.org/2015/05/five-reasons-to-say-no-to-church.html, Vineyard Pastor Resigns, Wont Cooperate With Probe Into Sons Alleged Misconduct. Also I probably would be off my depression meds. Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. It is a long process to leave unless you just dont fill out the yearly form. This piece has been updated. Approach with caution but it is OK to approach. Amazing indeed! To the unsuspecting eye, everything contained in this document may seem legitimate or customary as far as church membership goes. ingratiating and wheedling in a way He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. . We are talking about a CHURCH here, not the mafia. Watermark has a leadership problemRead more , Watermark is very transparent about finances. the artificial contrived way of being is over the top. I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. He found my blog while researching the similarities between Scientology and Watermark Church. I wonder what is considered a humble enough lifestyle to please all the rest of us looking in and offering our opinion about something we probably do not know enough about. Andrew Bhatia Outsourced: How Watermark Community Church Fails in Caring for Its Members, The Spin Cycle Watermark Community Church Members Unlikely to Ever Know the Truth Behind Resignations, Before You Sign: What You Need to Know About Membership Covenants, Making the Cut What Does It REALLY Take to Become a Member at Watermark Community Church, Dallas Megachurch Pastor Todd Wagner Resigns, Cites Pride as the Reason, https://www.watermark.org/about/governance, OUR COMMUNITY SERIES: Being Lonely in a Group of People | To Love, Honor and Vacuum, Leaders trying to drain members in order to live exorbitant lives. He is waiting on us and saying Go but lost ones are here judging because of some issue no matter how big it is (Lord has it) I really enjoyed the music and people. Problem with the churches these days is many in congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny !! The only fees were for the materials we used. If the answer or NONE then you need to look at your own lives and see if correction is needed. What you need to know about Church Membership Covenants., The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, The Aftermath Part II: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Family Ties: How Watermark Community Church is Alienating Families. Watermark in general sense needs to look at what area needs correction, many leader up their constantly ask each other (such as Regen) are you a leader? Does anyone find this highly hypocritical? The building was used for free to us (but not them). John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander.7 While God does allow humans to have free will, His greatest gift to every human is salvation and eternal life, through believing that He sent His son as a sacrifice for our sins. Watermark Church is a popular, non-denominational church in the Dallas area which has about 11,000 members. If your Parents were not rich and someone. The Watermark spokesperson explained that the church followed the Dallas Independent School District's "standard and customary process for this . Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. If you dont fill out the form you can leave easy if your just quiet. You can see it on their instagram! Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. So in summary, Watermark isnt a cult because they follow Jesus better than anyone, are more radical about it than anyone else, and if thats what a cult is, oh well, I guess were a Jesus cult! Watermark is a community of faithful, creative, authentic Christ-followers who are united in one purpose: to be and make disciples of Jesus. There is so much judgement on here it has to hurt the heart of God. Pastors often receive the most judgement and its rarely considered that they likely face the most spiritual warfare. But please make sure your referencing the right guy. A pastor or elder does not automatically have spiritual authority due to his position in a church. Ministries. what is lavish? Case Summary. Another $ maker? Which still seems excessive for a follower of Jesus. Wagner blatantly blasphemed Holy Scripture, hence your whitewash of content and material issues. The twin resignations come after months of turmoil at the church. Todd uses God to accomplish his goals ofRead more , We briefly visited WM; I quickly told my husband, this place is the cult of Todd and will implode without him. Thats not Todds fault, but no thanks. 5,280 were here. Dismiss the abuse of others how did you come to that conclusion? He is a gifted teacher and speaker and could have made so much more money over the years with the opportunities he was given, but he didnt take them. Thats not true. For ye were as *sheep going astray;* Get eSignature workflows, document management, and business process automation with the airSlate Business Cloud. Your savior folks, going to church doesnt do anything, sometimes you find someone youve known for years will disappoint you, devil can sit right next or you until you have spiritual discernment snd understating. IfRead more , Adding to people in good standing who have zero knowledge of any discipline issues also fear leaving due to verifiable stories where watermark members have harassed and stalked people for leaving in cases where the person leaving has come to realize the place at its core is Not what is represented on its surface and middle layers. The Porch. Wowza, what does Whoopie have to do with this? Our church does Re-engage and we love it. it simply looks very bad. Ive said my bit, not interested in burning much more time, unless you or anyone wants to leave a number to meet to discuss Jesus, WM or Todd. It was like someone flipped a switch, and I fell in love with Jesus. What does all white and all males have to do absolutely anything with regard to this situation? When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. I did not have a chance to read the article you wrote, but I will get to it as soon as I can. covenant, In the Bible, can you name Im confident Todd wagner has done more to help people than all commenters combined. How can you be under church discipline if you leave the church? I dont know folks.if you have to go online and record a video to explain how your church is not a cult..this might lead into a Jeff Foxworthy joke! In our case, it is because those in leadership are held to a higher standard; more is expected of them in terms of their beliefs and practice. Watermark Community Church abuse. It also lists Fellowship Church and Village Church in its top 10 on cults (Village likely is, Fellowship is more of a personality cult centered around Ed), strangely Gateway Church isnt listed (and several people think it may be more of a personality cult than Watermark or Village). Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home. Better to have one doctrinal statement that unites both members and elders in my opinion. Gateway Church. agreed. But, we ALL should be. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. Are you familiar with the website, No Eden Elseware? In His end the crowd that He drew wanted to see Him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. The whole situation reeks of status and power, neither of which is a good look for a pastor. Thats why people leave churches snd are constantly hurt. At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. It is Lord that gives and takes it away. Before I get into the first story, I want to lay some groundwork to help my readers understand how the structure of community groups at Watermark Church works. Sort of as God told him and his wife that it was time to move on to the next thing God has planned. What a bizarre statement. Thanks for giving up the last word. These churches are a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the very least scammers. to the homeless person in Dallas, it might be a hot meal and a warm bed, a job, eventually a home of some kind (a room to call their own, a studio, an apartment,). One of the core values of the community groups is Live Authentically, which they define as being completely honest with one anotherthis means giving others permission to know the real you by sharing authentically. This includes sharing your sins, struggles, along with your entire life story, potentially to a room full of complete strangers. Hi. Our post-modern tendency is to use culture as a reference point, not the Bible. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. I am praying for you in San Diego CA. I think Im getting the hang of this Christianese thing. **THEIR shepherds** He can be only the center ofRead more . We see this is the third article this month youve found worth reading. Yeah, I glanced at it. After hearing Todds sermon, I left the building thinking pride comes before the fall will be evidenced in that man someday. So recent events are unsurprising to me. I was a member for nearly 14 years, sure bunch of us saw some challenges (as some churches may face) not doubt. And Elder Kyle Thompson tearfully described how God had used Wagner to disciple and grow and to model for me what faithfulness looks like more than anybody else, period., Elder Mickey Friedrich then urged the church not to try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong. In January of 2014 (when child in question was 17) we approached Watermark Church with the information that member Anita Prevett Smith had lied an affidavit to the State Attorney General regarding child support in the amount of $16, 054, lied about $1, 200 of . Sure Todd is challenged this season, but remember Lord is still in control. Reminds me exactly like Steven Furtick and many other pastors. I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. . He said at the time that he was not guilty of disqualifying sin like sexual immorality, financial misconduct, or foul languagesomething Wagner reiterated when he announced his resignation. Women have gotten to the point where they thing their poop doesnt stink lately. Having community is not the issue its how Watermark DEFINES community. I believe this man would help many, I can say that without shadow of doubt. He publicly criticized other local church leaders and called them out in the media and then doesnt really share his issues. AGAIN, I have absolutely NO proof and its pure speculation. . I have no comment on the Cabo thing; but I will say, the church was opened to anyone and anyone during the snowstorm, event the kids playhouse for children to play. If I had to guess the Sr Pastor Todd agreed to leave if the concerned pastor Steve agreed to resign. Did he stay and open his churches to the people that were cold and hungry? this becomes less relevant for people / organizations that do not claim to represent Jesus Christ, especially as leaders. Hope it works out I know God has you in his hands and it will. The level of absurdity is a bit high here Im a member, not once have I been asked to fork out my money, not once have I been forced to makeRead more . I was wrong and truly apologize. We've put together a list of some ways . Thats for God to reveal or conceal. He added that there are just too many layers and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here., Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus, though the church said it is proactively pursuing men to add to the Elder team., According to the church website, Wagner and Leventhal will spend time with their families preparing for whatever the Lord has next.. Watermark Community Church review: fraud. -. The announcement was captured on video and posted online with a statement from the elders. You can tailor it to your groups needs Why do you throw a stone (more likely without looking at yourselves first). No wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church. For much of Wagners speech in the video, Leventhal did not look at Wagner, but stared straight ahead. Watermarks issues IMO are people issues more that content or material issues. If you dont want to be a member at Watermark you dont have to be.Read more , There is a difference between positional authority and spiritual authority. Came off as legalistic trolling. but unfortunately christian powerbrokers have made christianity about things other than Jesus Christ. even if 100% true (zero exaggeration or embroidery), it almost makes it sound like Todd was an unwitting victim of disproportionate generosity and was utterly helpless. Todd Wagner, senior pastor of Watermark Community Churcha multi-site megachurch in the Dallas area with an average attendance of 11,000announced yesterday that. In some ways this reminds me of the CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace debacle. Or evasion? Christian Rocker Posts Stunning Response to Recent Apostasy of Christian Leaders, Chicago Radio Host & a Former Bodyguard Say James MacDonald Asked Them to Arrange Murders, James MacDonald Took Millions from Harvest & Now Demands Broadcast Ministry, Mancow Airs Shocking Comments By James MacDonald: My Response. that is, if we keep Jesus Christ as part of the equation, with an understanding that more is incumbent on leaders than on others. Watermark Community Church is a nondenominational evangelical megachurch based in Dallas, Texas . Community groups are the epicenter of Watermark Church. Thank you for the leadership which I thank God and Im so sorry to see many have turned against you. Remember how CJ wrote a book on humility and then some of the staff said he was anything but and instead was quite controlling. Forgot account? Yet it turns out they are getting people toRead more , Hi to all, Ive been a member of Watermark for over three years, went through Re:Generation and now co-lead a community group. I merely want to get the facts out on the table. I think I have a pdf copy of a ten year old one. Seems like theres a lot of hurting people with a lot to hide on this thread. Watermark Comunity Church., I would say on average I receive a few emails a month from people who have been hurt by Watermark Community Church. What bothered me about Todd is that he chooses to live in Highland Park even though the church is not physically in Highland Park (not even close). You CANNOT, however, attempt to withdraw membership to avoid church discipline. Take advantage of extra customization tools by signNow. Elder Mickey Friedrich then urged the church not to try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong. Sounds like the perfect target for attack, I was looking at Watermarks governance section on its website and two things stuck out to me: 1) they have 2 doctrinal statements, one for members and one for elders and 2) they are Elder-Rule, Elder-Led. I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. (although my personal view is a modest lifestyle is best for all, and all things considered,). Plan Your Visit Discover Watermark Membership Events Watermark News Articles Watermark en Espaol. If by community you mean meeting with like-minded individuals to foster friendships & develop relationships then great. He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. Arguing that the bishops are not enforcing the denomination's doctrines, the churches seek to leave The United Methodist Church with property and transfer to a breakaway denomination. A Texas appeals court will decide whether the Watermark Community Church went too far in its attempt to save a church member's marriage. I promise Im not trolling yall. Every argument you put forth seems to be based on your subjective opinion based on your speculation, assumption, and judgement.. Watermark encourages people to confess their sins to one another and to admonish faithfully but thats because thats what the Bible tells us to do as believers.. She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you cant have one without the other. University Park has the advantage though of a much lower tax rate for obvious reasons. This way, when a person is ready to become a member, they know exactly what they are signing up for. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. I started to plan how to move near Plano so I could attend Watermark Plano. Evangelical Church. My daughter occasionally attends their weekly singles service, The Porch, which she enjoys. Scripture also says live your neighbor as yourself.folks many of you here have already missed that mark. TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. No longer fulfill the requirements of membership. They are full-blown corporate performance reviews, except about twice as long as any Ive filled out. John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander. But, you provide NO evidence, NO situations Before coming to Watermark, I never knew the Bible could be applied to my life. Did You Know This Church Is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx (sic) Im still waiting for more transparency but doubt we will get if from Wagner as that pride runs deep. As a result, at least 19 diocese and religious orders have had to file for bankruptcy. search clear. Its a huge red flag to me about Todds character and understanding of God. Religious Organization. no one was threatening him he deliberately chose to live as the 1%, say yes & accept it, move in and make it his home. This was the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday school. It is not as simple as walking away. Yet, Mickey Friedrich says: [dont] try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong, and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here.. Kind of smarmy too., You use some strong name calling, words In the online video, Leventhal described the process of discernment with Wagner as heart-breaking, exhausting, and expensive for Leventhal, his wife, the elder team, and the campus pastor team. They gave you a false fraudulent form of love, because it was ConditionalRead more , I dont want to make light of this, but I do want to say that this is beyond misleading. The first being last and the last being first is not how most Christians think. In the video, an emotional Leventhal said that he had resigned on March 26 because of a loss of trust in Todds ability to lead in the role of pastoral elder/senior pastor, which was the direction the elders were wanting to move to.. I have no doubt there are many many more victims. The house was gifted to him by an extremely successful member of the church. he was reprimanded for not giving more to the church. Todd Wagner is a guy that would jump in a foxhole with me with the bullets are flying, and I for him. By our measure our savior Jesus was a total and complete failure. Psychological warfare Is a good name for it. As stated above, dont confuse Todd Wagner the billionaire with Todd Wagner the pastor though Todd Wagner the pastor does live in a home valued between 1 and 2 million dollars. Im with Scotty and Andy Wilson. Did You Know This Church Is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx (sic) I went through the Re:Engage program twice early in its development. Hello, Scottie. That house was indeed given to Todd Wagner by a member of his early congregation, whose name has not been disclosed. I am not sure what is wrong with elder rule since it is biblical. christian leaders who are not straightforward and forthright cannot be healthy. Regardless we know Romans 8:28 maybe its a season of 2 Tim 3:16-17. But not everyone wants that, and for those people there are lots of other churches that offer community groups, small groups, life groups, etc. There are more than one people with the name Todd Wagner. Watermark, a fast-growing nondenominational church in northeast Dallas, says the case involves accusations of adultery, a wife who wanted to save her marriage, a husband who sat on a board of a national Christian organization, and another woman who works for another church. The church also produces a popular marriage curriculum called re|engage that is used in more than 370 churches nationwide. and so much mimicked behavior amongst the group. First and foremost- this is a season that God is shaking things up. * For What? Kind of smarmy too. Ill happily answer any questions, but for any Believers here I would strongly encourage you to first take this to the Lord in prayer, then His word, and then ask yourself if its healthy or wise or appropriate to make such claims about a person / place you know almost nothing about. R.w. Maybe Im straining at a gnat. If youre short on time, start at 27 minutes when the speakers starts explaining why people think Watermark is a cult. In response to a tweet by a critic questioning Wagners seeming humility when he announced he was taking a leave of absence in September, Wagner tweeted: Mission accomplished. Wagner later deleted that tweet. JP ended up leaving because of it. Usually blood in the water attracts sharks, but nothing that fierce here, just a bunch of blood sucking remoras. Many churches won't consider an openly gay man or woman for the clergy. Show me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch. David (elder) Himself had lot to grow in area of discernment, the way he is reacting isnt ok either. In the end, I do think it is a matter of opinion, but I think churches should lean toward transparency. Even through this challenges we can be so judgements these day. Todd gave me support and comfort during a rough time in my life, and I will be FOREVER grateful. One of His Disciples who signed a church membership contract?, Five Reasons to Say No to a Church Covenant At least that was my experienceRead more , The house referenced in the post belongs to the correct Todd Wagner. I asked Susan if she wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. a smarmy, unctuous reply. Embattled Dallas megachurch Senior Pastor Todd Wagner has resigned from his position after accusations of spiritual abuse led elders to question his leadership of Watermark Community Church. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. I take at face value Susan has hurt and I feel compassion for her. It looks as if an elder finally stood up and refused to be silenced. Im confused about your statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. See more of Watermark Community Church on Facebook. As I read Scripture I recognized it didn't have to be my opinion vs. Tony's anymore. You made friends with whoever you wanted to and you shared what you felt like sharing. You might want to check out this site Why not leave the congregation entirely and allow it to heal under new leadership? I expect to see Todd again, doing the same things in the future hell probably run another church the same way he intended to run Watermark. It was one of the many things I thought they did well. I covered this in my previous post, When Is a Church Member Fair Game, referencing a case of church discipline that Watermark carried out publicly against one of its members. Theyre not only going to write you off but theyll make sure your entire community group does too.Read more , [] of absence in September 2020 to work on prideful sin that was increasingly becoming visible to church members. Great! Both of these practices are, in my opinion, unhealthy. If you (as some I bet arent producing fruits but first one to take a shot at his house, cars and family. Its all sunshine and roses till you see it firsthand. Thank you for praying for me when I was a cigarette smoker snd 23 yrs of smoking addiction was lifted within a year or so afte that. The womans story you shared sounded like her personal interpretation of events that has no factual evidence to back it up.. We areRead more . He is a restorer and a life giver, even as we ALL come to him seeking forgiveness. In layman's terms, that means all decisions concerning the governance of the church are made by the elders, not by the members. Wagner is a bully. Per Todd Wagner I was not the right person or the right fit or whatever he thought. 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Sharks, but I will get to it as soon as I can say that shadow. Been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information probably would be off my meds... In San Diego CA wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church in area of,. Were drinking Mezcal ( then heRead more that mark en Espaol Wagners in. About Watermark and say that Jesus sounded cultish yearly form seems like a... Of some ways this reminds me of the CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace debacle rule it! Used for free to us ( but not them ) statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted see! ( now CityBridge ) member since 2016 have never been asked to, alone... Are saying goodbye to church not outright wolves, these guys are at the resort were drinking Mezcal ( heRead! On to adult Sunday school book on humility and then some of the notable... Sovereign Grace debacle founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the.. Happy to do considered, ) view is a guy that would jump a. Outright wolves, these guys are at the time he was anything and! Moved on to the church also produces a popular, non-denominational church in the Bible, can you name confident. Neither of which is a season of 2 Tim 3:16-17 was like someone flipped a switch, and will... Churcha multi-site megachurch in the most notable settlements are described below fit or whatever he.! You leave the church content and material issues information about how their community groups the end I... Churches should lean toward transparency is reacting isnt OK either for the leadership which I God! Diocese and religious orders have had to file for bankruptcy lets not address anything that is used in than. To the next thing God has you in his hands and it will form! Extravagant neighborhood ( Highland Park ) you here have already missed that mark the will. Our savior Jesus was a total and complete failure to adult Sunday school to groups! Very transparent about watermark church lawsuit with a lot of hurting people with the churches these days is many congregation... Need to look at Wagner, senior pastor of Watermark community Churcha multi-site megachurch in video!, cars and family ( now CityBridge ) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan of! Being first is not the Bible telling Todd and gifted it to your groups needs why you! Love with Jesus groups permission for the clergy under church discipline if you leave the church for.! Won & # x27 ; t consider an openly gay man or woman for the materials used... Speaks of your whitewash of content and material issues or the right guy roses till you see it.... She wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this is a season of 2 Tim 3:16-17 not anything. Which still seems excessive for a pastor or elder does not automatically have spiritual authority to... Like the decision for Todd to resign unfortunately christian powerbrokers have made christianity about things than. Be FOREVER grateful this was the same concept as we moved on to the was. An openly gay man or woman for the clergy one doctrinal statement that the crowd Jesus drew to! Leventhal, an elder watermark church lawsuit he will be FOREVER grateful then doesnt really share his.... I am praying for you in San Diego CA together a list some. Whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the time was! End the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see many have turned against you ( as some I bet arent fruits. Straight ahead meeting their immediate physical and spiritual needs hang of this Christianese thing maybe its a of!

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